-
It's not a desire to be popular. It's "karma farming." A lot of subreddits, in an attempt to cut down on bot activity, have a minimum karma requirement before you can post, and often account age requirements. Accounts with a lot of karma, especially accounts that are not brand new, are worth money. These bot posts designed to get a lot of upvotes/karma are farming karma so the account can be sold later to advertisers, propagandists, disinformation spreaders etc who will pay good money to get ahold of an account that can be used to spam hundreds of subreddits, even ones with restrictions. That is why one sign of a bot account is a high karma account that is posting the same thing on tons of subs all at once. A human would not do that with their own account.
The below is a generalization and should be taken with appropriate grains of salt. I am on Reddit, yet I don't fit the below generalization and a lot of other people don't either.
Reddit is the premier showcase for US Millennial progressive culture. Reddit Millennials, on the whole, hate what they call "boomers" which generally refers not just to the Baby Boom generation, but anyone older than them in general. I have worked face to face with people like this and talked to them in addition to seeing them online in various places. This type of Millennial, despite studies showing they are doing better than Baby Boomers were at their age in terms of wealth and home ownership, is convinced they got a raw deal from older generations and that they have it worse than any preceding generation. (Generation X actually does have it worse.)
They also think boomers are responsible for everything they dislike, from global warming to conservative politics. I had one such Millennial tell me face to face "We didn't start the fire" in a self-righteous tone of voice when discussing global warming, meaning older people are responsible for global warming. He apparently wasn't aware fossil fuels were being used as early as the 19th century - coal and oil.
No one alive "started the fire." Boomers were actually seeing articles, including in The Washington Post, about the threat of an imminent cooling event.
This kind of ignorance pervades the Reddit Millennial worldview. They are champions of progressive politics and think all boomers are conservative and the root of all evil. Somehow they seem unaware boomers were very active in public demonstrations - the kind where you get hit with firehoses and tear gas, or as at Kent State, shot dead by National Guardsmen, it's a lot more risky than posting anonymously online - for women's rights, racial equality, stopping the war in Vietnam etc in the 60s and early 70s.
How they can be unaware of this I don't know. But they are. Living together without getting married, smoking weed, men having long hair, wearing jeans, all kinds of Millennial lifestyle habits were the result of boomer actions. Boomers were born into a world of racially segregated schools and drinking fountains and bathrooms, crewcuts and wearing suits to work and fedora hats. Boomers protested and called attention to the racial and gender injustices, and the generations in power - the Silent Generation and the Greatest Generation - worked on addressing them. It was on their watch that homosexual acts went from felonies in the majority of US states in the 1990s, to gay marriage becoming a constitutional right in 2015.
Living together without being married was called "cohabitation" and was a crime. The boomers did it anyway and society decided it wasn't a big deal after all.
One state where I went to school had a law against more than 3 women living in the same dwelling - such dwellings were considered a "house of ill repute" (a brothel). As a result the university sororities could not have sorority houses and female students had to live no more than 3 to an apartment, townhouse or house. A small taste of how things used to be. I know someone who was a lawyer in a law firm in this state who was pulled aside by the law firm's senior partners and told he had to marry the woman he was living with if he wanted to stay employed at the firm, because "living in sin" made the firm look bad to its conservative clients. He was a boomer.
The boomers were a radical departure from the "Father Knows Best" culture of the 1950s. Whether you are liberal, conservative, or moderate, it cannot be denied that boomers moved society in a much more liberal direction, if you know anything about cultural history. Yet these Reddit Millennials hate them and think they are all clones of (pick a conservative politician).
One example on Reddit I noticed recently was someone posting an article about how a grocery chain was planning to implement, or was already testing, variable pricing on groceries, so people whom the system thought made more money would pay more for an item than someone else that the system thought was poorer.
https://www.reddit.com/r/technology/...in_kroger_can/
Note this was in the r/technology sub, not what you'd consider a hotbed of political conversation or Millennial culture.
I couldn't help but notice this (notice the 1,000 upvote remark):
The irony of this was not lost on me, and it was typical. They clearly had not read, or even glanced at, the article the original post linked to.
The article begins:
"Two U.S. senators are raising alarms about grocery chain Kroger’s artificial intelligence-driven “dynamic pricing” model. Senators Warren of Massachusetts and Casey of Pennsylvania, both Democrats, say the initiative, which Kroger presented as a way to enhance customer experience, might exemplify unchecked corporate greed."
Elizabeth Warren is 75 years old. A Baby Boomer. She was the one calling attention to this, otherwise these Redditors would not have heard of it. Yet here they are lambasting boomers in response. It's really unbelievable. A comment I could understand, but a thousand upvotes for such an ignorant, hateful remark? I see that sort of comment - and the upvotes - constantly on Reddit. I really have to hold my nose when I go there.
Again, not everyone on Reddit is like this. But a huge number of them are.
l i t t l e
s t e p h e r sComment
-
About as much as TikTok being banned by the US. BRBFBI and I did not start it.
LazyPooky maybe it would be good to move all the posts about TikTok, and social media that are not pertinent to Australia in particular, to a separate thread. I can't recall if there was a social media thread already, there might be one.l i t t l es t e p h e r sComment
-
I heard some rumors that TikTok slowly comes back to users in the USA, since Trump asked for a 3 month delay of the law. Not sure if this is true.Magnús: - I have fans of all ages and I don't think it's weird when older people like LazyTown. LazyTown appeals to people for many different reasons: dancing, acrobatics, etc.Comment
-
Very interesting post, chuft. I enjoyed the examples of Baby Boomers moving culture forward. After reading I can't help but imagine cultural progression as a 10K relay race. You can't skip straight from the 4th kilometer to the finish line; first you have to cross the 5th, 6th, 7th, etc... passing the baton as you go. The Baby Boomers carried the baton a long ways. Blaming previous generations for the problems that remain is like taking the baton then lying on the ground and saying "you only got me here?"
I also think one could make an argument for a particular generation being guilty of a particular sin, but the 1k upvote comment example is evidence that a lot of anti-Boomer sentiment is the product of online echo-chambers rather than well considered arguments. I'm also turned off by short-form vitriolic expressions of opinion as in that comment. Abusive/highly convicted language like that doesn't facilitate discussion and only really works in an echo-chamber. One of my friends invited me to a small discord server full of content like that and I can't stand it.
I get the karma farming thing. I'm talking about something different. Bots aside I think that users are motivate by a desire for positive recognition (upvotes) and that a lot of users' posts take on an affectation. Of course this is a normal human trait (the desire to fit in, the desire to be liked,) but it's turbo charged on a site where your reputation and visibility are determined by other users reacting positively towards you. The result is a very homogeneous and (in my opinion) affected culture.Comment
-
TikTok restores service after going dark in US, crediting Trump's 'clarity'
https://finance.yahoo.com/news/tikto...isqoGU5PMUVJ58
And Psychologists around the world cheered and celebrated
Comment
-
And just one more.
https://www.wpr.org/news/fond-du-lac...ver-tiktok-banFond du Lac police say suspect set fire to congressman’s office over TikTok ban
Police, firefighters responded to fire at US Rep. Glen Grothman's office shortly after a federal ban on TikTok briefly went into effect
Fond du Lac Police say a 19-year-old man Sunday set fire to a Wisconsin congressman’s office over the federal ban on TikTok.
The department responded around 1 a.m. Sunday to a fire at a strip mall that houses an office of U.S. Rep. Glenn Grothman, R-Glenbeulah.
Officers arrested a man from Menasha near the building who admitted to starting the fire “in response to recent talks of a TikTok ban”, according to a department press release.
Comment
-
I won't pretend I'm well versed on legal matters, but it seems like even people who are have no idea how this is going to go. They brought it back based on an promise of a future executive order by Trump. Never mind that it's currently still illegal, and that Trump's power to overturn a federal law with an executive order is likely to face its own legal challenges. Tiktok is happy to turn it back on, but tiktok content in the US is hosted on servers owned by various companies in the US, and the app is available through various webstores, and not all of those entities are willing to break the law on the promise that Trump will retroactively make it legal. That's why it's still down for some users and you can't download the app from the Google or Microsoft stores.
TikTok restores service after going dark in US, crediting Trump's 'clarity'
https://finance.yahoo.com/news/tikto...isqoGU5PMUVJ58
And Psychologists around the world cheered and celebratedComment
-
That's quite sad. As much as I hate the American congress and the living fossils that run it, they don't deserve to be executed for it, it's not like Grothman was the sole person who did this. Glad no one got hurt and hope the shooter gets better mentally
And I must say, this is reminding me of the Mangione case. Really not many similarities, but stillComment
-
Haven't seen any in-depth info on the guy who did it yet. A lot of people built their business via the platform. While Tik Tok itself doesn't pay you anything, if you become popular enough you'll attract companies for sponsorships. That's where the money is made. Or, selling your brand merchandise and whatnot. Just to have that pulled out from under you without a proper replacement and having to start from scratch. Not that I'm condoning any acts like this but I understand it. I can understand the absolute frustration, the sheer powerlessness and the need to lash out. Tik Tok should not have been allowed to get as big as it did. They've known for a long time what was going on and were using it themselves.Comment
-
Thanks.
It really was a different world, most people today have no idea. For example it used to be a felony, especially in the South, to marry or cohabitate with someone of another race. These anti-miscegenation laws were struck down in 1967. The judge in the lower court had written:
"Almighty God created the races white, black, yellow, Malay, and red, and placed them on separate continents, and but for the interference with his arrangement there would be no cause for such marriages. The fact that he separated the races shows that he did not intend the races to mix."
Can you imagine a judge writing that today? That wasn't in Nazi Germany, it was in the United States in 1965.
Similarly you used to not be able to get divorced without proving fault. From the wikipedia article:
"Prior to the advent of no-fault divorce, a divorce was processed through the adversarial system as a civil action, meaning that a divorce could be obtained only through a showing of fault of one—and only one—of the parties in a marriage. This required that one spouse plead that the other had committed adultery, abandonment, felony, or other similarly culpable acts. However, the other spouse could plead a variety of defenses, like recrimination (essentially an accusation of "so did you"). A judge could find that the respondent had not committed the alleged act or the judge could accept the defense of recrimination and find both spouses at fault for the dysfunctional nature of their marriage. Either of these two findings was sufficient to defeat an action for divorce, which meant that the parties remained married."
This made it difficult or impossible in many cases for a person to get out of a marriage with an abusive spouse. As is true for so many changes in US culture, California led the way in getting rid of this in 1969 and all the other states eventually followed suit, some later than others. I should note this is something conservatives today have targeted as a law they want to roll back.
Another example was the constitutional right to get an abortion which resulted from the Roe v Wade opinion in 1973. Conservatives have succeeded in rolling this back in 2022 through the unlikely partnership of Mitch McConnell (who loathes Trump) and Donald Trump.
And yet another thing modern young people take for granted is birth control pills. Their appearance and use was not just a matter of science, but like everything else involving sex, politics.
"Although the FDA approved the first oral contraceptive in 1960, contraceptives were not available to married women in all states until Griswold v. Connecticut in 1965, and were not available to unmarried women in all states until Eisenstadt v. Baird in 1972."
And while I am at it, it was not a crime for a man to rape his wife before the 1970s.
So before the boomers, you could not marry someone of another race, live with someone without being married, use birth control pills, get an abortion, get divorced without a court case proving fault in just one partner, or engage in homosexual acts without it being a crime, nor could you marry someone of the same sex. Schools were often racially segregated, as were things like bathrooms and drinking fountains. A man could not be prosecuted for raping his wife. Ah yes, the "good old days".
That's a great analogy.
I think part of the problem is the modern "progressive" is very different in outlook than "liberals" from the past. The word "liberal" is a very positive word if you look up the definition:
- willing to respect or accept behavior or opinions different from one's own; open to new ideas.
- Tolerant, open-minded, unbigoted.
- (in a political context) favoring policies that are socially progressive and promote social welfare.
- relating to or denoting a political and social philosophy that promotes individual rights, civil liberties, democracy, and free enterprise.
The progressive Reddit Millennials I have encountered (and their kind in real life as well as on other sites besides Reddit) do not fit these definitions. They tend to be humorless, strident, judgmental, self-righteous, and contemptuous of anyone outside of their world view. They come across as a cross between religious fanatics and communist revolutionaries. Politics is their religion and their sense of both group and self identity flows from it. They are descendants of the "politically correct" movement that started in the late 1980s. The term "politically correct" always struck me as something that sounded like it was from Mao's Little Red Book.
I'll never forget the first time I heard it. It was my first day at a new university and I was standing in line at a campus food establishment. After getting my food, another new student, a young woman who also had just gotten hers, suggested we eat together. I agreed and suggested we join a table with some other students a small distance away. She made a face and said "We can't sit with them, they're Republicans." I had, until this point in my life, never encountered anything like this. But I didn't want to make an enemy on my first day in a new city and a new school, so we sat at a different table. At some point I said something she did not care for and she said "You can't say that, it's not politically correct." Once again I could not believe my ears. Was I in the Soviet Union? I was apolitical and it was very weird, and disturbing.
I see echoes of that attitude today in "progressives" that I encounter. While they might strive to increase social welfare for those who continue to suffer from our cultural and legal institutions, they seem to feel a genuine contempt for anyone who does not agree with them. They are not interested in debating and convincing , so much as belittling and insulting, or worse, those with other points of view.
On one hobby forum I used to frequent there was a politics sub-forum. As things got uglier and uglier in the US over the last 20 years, all the conservatives were banned from this sub-forum one by one until only progressives (not liberals, mind) were left. I then watched them turn on each other. It was a struggle at all times for each of them to not say something that others would seize upon and use to point the finger at them, accusing them of violating their political orthodoxy. I saw a lot of apologies and humiliations as people sought to avoid being ostracized for saying the wrong thing. It was like peeking into the political purges of the Russian Civil War and the following period, where once the Tsar was gone, the Bolsheviks turned on the Mensheviks, the Stalinists on the Trotskyites and so forth.
I recall one lively conversation following Mike Pence's statement that he would never dine alone with a woman that was not his wife. One of the progressives agreed with this sentiment, saying in his personal experience he had seen many marriages destroyed by cheating that started from innocent time spent alone together by a man and a woman that progressed into an affair. Well that was apparently the wrong thing to say to this crowd, they associated the concept with Mike Pence (the Republican Vice President and a conservative Christian) and they viciously attacked him, saying women could not progress in the workplace if they could not have lunch with their boss or colleague etc. It was quite a show. He was every bit as progressive as they were and did not see this as a political issue but rather a common sense way to avoid temptation, rather like not keeping sweets in the house if you are trying to lose weight. But the others did not see it that way and saw his statement as a political sin. This same crowd was also fond of organizing boycotts of small companies whose owners' values differed from their own, reporting statements on other sites made by someone that were "offensive" and getting the forum admins to ban the person based on their behavior elsewhere etc.
So to my mind there is an enormous difference between liberals and progressives, although conservative media has made a concerted effort to blur the distinction and label anyone not on the Right as being a "liberal." If you look at the greatest liberal president in history, Lyndon Johnson, his greatest talent was for persuasion. He knew how to get people to agree on things and make things happen. Persuasion, not demonizing or insulting, should be the hallmark of any great politician, and is the core of effective politics in general.
In case you are not familiar with Johnson, a quick rundown of his accomplishments from the 1960's:
"Johnson's Great Society was aimed at expanding civil rights, public broadcasting, access to health care, aid to education and the arts, urban and rural development, consumer protection, environmentalism, and public services. He sought to create better living conditions for low-income Americans by spearheading the war on poverty. As part of these efforts, Johnson signed the Social Security Amendments of 1965, which resulted in the creation of Medicare and Medicaid. Johnson made the Apollo program a national priority; enacted the Higher Education Act of 1965, which established federally insured student loans; and signed the Immigration and Nationality Act of 1965, which laid the groundwork for U.S. immigration policy today. Johnson's stance on civil rights put him at odds with other white Southern Democrats. His civil rights legacy was shaped by the Civil Rights Act of 1964, the Voting Rights Act of 1965, and the Civil Rights Act of 1968."
He did not accomplish these things by belittling his opponents. He was a master of persuasion. Politics is the art of the possible. It's not about ideology, it's about compromise and what can be accomplished. At least, it should be. Sadly in the US it has degenerated.
To be clear, progressives are not alone in their contempt of others. Many on the political Right are similar in their outlook, although rather than contemptuous disbelief that anyone could disagree with them, they seem fond of "trolling" and "owning the libs" as a form of entertainment. Neither side comes out looking good to me. I work with someone who votes for Trump because he thinks Trump's entertaining in his obnoxious behavior. Hardly the basis for a vote in my opinion.
I agree.
Yes, there are multiple things going on here. If you get enough downvotes, Reddit hides your comment. This is rather like what happens on YTMND and Imgur. It is still available to be expanded, but many people will just scroll past it. Being unpopular makes you invisible. Low enough karma on a particular sub (it is not just a global value, there is subreddit karma tracked too) could get you banned from a sub.
The other is what conservatives call "virtue signalling" - something I saw a lot of on that political sub-forum I mentioned above. People saying things that they knew were acceptable - entirely predictable things with no real conversational value that had been said many times before - in order to receive approval from others in that particular crowd. Not unique to our era, but much more common now on the internet than it ever was in real life. Of course conservatives do this too, but for some reason do not seem to recognize it as a sin for remarks pertaining to their side, only remarks made by those on the other side.
l i t t l es t e p h e r sComment
-
Uh oh, looks like we have another ageist, this time right here. Don't even have to go to Reddit. The word "hate" doesn't help your cause either.
John Thune, Senate Majority Leader, is 64. Mike Johnson, Speaker of the House, is 52. Hakeem Jeffies, House Minority Leader, is 54. The only one that even qualifies as "old" in medical terms is Senate Minority Leader Chuck Schumer, who is 74. Hardly "living fossils" (not that age should ever be used in place of performance in evaluating a person).l i t t l es t e p h e r sComment
-
He who sups with the devil should have a long spoon. No sympathy from me. Hope the person who committed this heinous act rots in prison.
I'm sure a lot of people built their businesses on selling things to Nazi Germany too. Bet they were disappointed in late 1941. Too bad.l i t t l es t e p h e r sComment
-
My point being everyone knew it was a Chinese company. Like the gaming publisher Tencent. They have CCP officials
in every level of operation at that company. In fact, all Chinese companies are not privately owned. They
are owned and operated by the CCP. Again, I've know it for years about the Chinese and their policies and their backdoors
in everything. Our government has known and allowed it to fester. Christopher Wray in that "60 minutes" goodbye interview
even stated the Chinese have malware embedded in everything. Just waiting for the right time to hit that button. He even brought up about the theft of technologies.
Again they/we've known this for years. Done nothing.
I bet you didn't know about this one
U.S. Seizure of Chinese-Built Transformer Raises Specter of Closer Scrutiny
Federal officials haven’t said publicly why they sent the transformer to a national lab, but experts said the move signaled possible grid-security concerns
https://www.wsj.com/articles/u-s-sei...ts_pos2&page=1
The readable link bypassing the paywall
https://archive.ph/zkois
I remember quite well watching videos from even just 10 years ago warning about all this.Comment
-
Yeah. People never change. They will only change their behavior when it is (almost) too late because then they have no other choice.
I have seen videos from the 80s where they warned us to slow down on fossil fuels because there was already a visible change in the climate. Only now do you see the slow change coming to climate-friendly fuels, 40 years later. Probably too late now.
If it all happens slowly and in the case of China also very subtly, so that you don't notice it, then it will take even longer before action is taken.Magnús: - I have fans of all ages and I don't think it's weird when older people like LazyTown. LazyTown appeals to people for many different reasons: dancing, acrobatics, etc.Comment
Tweet
10.lazytown.eu
Comment