AI generated LazyTown stuff

[possessor]

LazyTown itself as a show is full of life, so even with just that i don't think using soulless AI for it is good.

Yes. Just, yes. It's a horrible idea and would ruin LazyTown, the unique-ness, creativity, anything that made it watchable.

[boredjedi]

Yeah Videodrome is a cult classic

[chuft]

Thanks for sharing. I like how Tully goes full drug addict (exaggerated withdrawal symptoms and all) when he's out of tapes. Not exactly subtle, but it gets the point across and I like the goofiness.

I haven't watched it in over 30 years so you'll have to forgive me if I'm wrong, but I'm pretty sure the shakes he has are from the Memezine drug. He says the word "Memezine" at 19:41 or so. So it's not as goofy as it first appears. I don't want to spoil any more of the story.


Also if you like ""politically motivated abuse of mass media technology" I would definitely watch Cronenberg's Videodrome.

[BRBFBI]

Thanks for sharing. I like how Tully goes full drug addict (exaggerated withdrawal symptoms and all) when he's out of tapes. Not exactly subtle, but it gets the point across and I like the goofiness. I might watch the rest of the series - I enjoyed the bits I saw, and based on the summary I'm intrigued by the themes of "politically motivated abuse of mass media technology."

I think taking advantage of mourners with virtual reality, or even just an AI voice, is obviously exploitative. It has its roots in the "séances" of the Edwardian era where people would pay "mediums" to contact their dead loved ones beyond the veil and convey messages.

I agree. That's a great conflation between this and séances. I guess it's a scheme as old as time.

[chuft]

And yes I'm a big Kim Cattrall fan

[chuft]

séance

I watched Be Right Back on your recommendation. Disturbingly, the concept isn't nearly as far fetched as it was in 2013. I described the plot to my sister and she said "it doesn't sound weird enough to be a Black Mirror episode."

Since a couple years ago there are many services which will replicate a loved one's voice using AI.

From one such website: "We’d all do anything for one last conversation with a lost loved one. Now, with the innovation of generative AI for speech, nothing needs to be left unsaid. At Honoring Voices, we make it possible for your loved ones to leave behind the kind of message they’d want to be remembered for – powered by technology and compassion."

The pitch for their "most popular" package for $189 reads: "Sometimes, you just need to hear a little bit more to feel truly close to your departed loved one again. Using more advanced AI voice generation processing, you can spend even more time with their voice as they lovingly recount stories or simply give you the comfort you need."

This is literally the first half of that Black Mirror episode (up to the point where he gets a robot body)!

I would be furious if somebody used AI to replicate my character once I'm dead. But even if you had the persons consent before they died I'm not sure it would be healthy. Grieving is a natural part of the human experience, and hanging on in this way isn't that far off from those stories you hear about police finding a dead body in someone's house because they were too aggrieved to let it go.

Due, I think, to the way this site has been malfunctioning with relation to "latest post" I did not see this post until BJ replied to it just now.


This is actually an older idea than Black Mirror. At least 20 years older. I first came across it, I think, in 1993, in Oliver Stone's TV miniseries Wild Palms. I could not remember the exact details nor find decent episode summaries, but the Internet Archive somehow has this copyrighted work in its entirety. I skimmed through it and found the relevant parts. This series predated the World Wide Web by just a few years. Had it come out a few years later, I think it would be much better known today. William Gibson, author of Neuromancer and coiner of the term "cyberspace" actually makes a cameo appearance.

As one of the side plots of this show, an artist, who is involved in the machinations going on, loses his lover to an addictive drug called Memezine which is part of a sinister plot to control the world through virtual reality. Shades of the David Cronenberg movie Videodrome from 1983. Anyway, one of the factions takes advantage of his loss by creating a virtual reality "tape" of his lover, with a fixed duration so it gets "used up". He cannot resist entering this reality to see his dead lover once last time, which "gets him through the night." Predictably, he returns to the "dealer" who gave him this "free sample" asking for more tapes. She sends him to the bad guys who made the tape, who want something from him in exchange for more virtual reality "tapes" of his dead lover.


I think taking advantage of mourners with virtual reality, or even just an AI voice, is obviously exploitative. It has its roots in the "séances" of the Edwardian era where people would pay "mediums" to contact their dead loved ones beyond the veil and convey messages.


If you want to watch the relevant bits - first at 11:20 to 12:48, then at 17:00 to 20:55.


https://archive.org/details/wild-pal...t+Be+Going.mp4

[boredjedi]

I sometimes feel guilty about all this. I dabbled with this recreating stuff 16 years ago in 2008.
Crudely mind you with the tools I had on hand and that were available to me.
But the ripple effect has been profound.

[BRBFBI]

AI might not just create entire new episodes either. It could be used to make edits, additions or subtractions from the original episodes. You might think you are watching S1 Ep 17 but it might really have new scenes added and others removed, or subtle changes to lines of dialog or facial expressions. Unless you had the original DVDs to compare it to scene by scene, how would you know? Eventually there might be 200 different S1 Ep 17s circulating around the internet, each someone's idea of an AI enhanced "improvement". There might be some with swearing. Or some with porn. Or some with political messages, or product placement. Or some that seem just as likely to be valid as the originals and who knows which is which.

Flawless forgery is a dangerous path and threatens everything authentic.

There are two different discussions going on here. I'm trying to explore the moral and personal implications of having infinite, personalized, generative content available to oneself; you're exploring the societal implications of such a technology's existence. The potential for abuse of such technology (such as product placement as you suggested) aside, what would be inherently wrong with there being infinite variations of LT episodes? We could post and discuss our favorite versions, we could make versions that combine LT with our individual specific interests (LT x Star Trek). Why would it even matter which was the original? Like I said earlier, by the time they get to us they're all just pixels on a screen anyway. Is the original "sacred?" That sounds a little nebulous.

You don't have to answer that. I'm just being annoying at this point. I do agree with everything you've written, and I enjoy the way you argue with examples.

"San Junipero" is next level to even Ai created voices or "Be Right Back" full body android included.
But with a twist.

It is my favorite of the episodes. Plug into their computer service and relive any time of your past.
Trying to be vague to those who haven't seen it and want to seek it out. It's basically VR taken to
the next level. The Matrix like rather.

I look forward to watching it!

[boredjedi]

Grieving is a natural part of the human experience, and hanging on in this way isn't that far off from those stories you hear about police finding a dead body in someone's house because they were too aggrieved to let it go.

You're not the only one who's brought that up about Grieving


7:14

And also touches upon

That's irrelevant to this discussion. In this case we know it's fake. We're making a continuation of LazyTown with AI that perfectly replicates all the actors from S1 to extrapolate new content for our entertainment. (I don't necessarily disagree with you, I am playing devil's advocate.)

at 7:35

[boredjedi]

The pitch for their "most popular" package for $189 reads: "Sometimes, you just need to hear a little bit more to feel truly close to your departed loved one again. Using more advanced AI voice generation processing, you can spend even more time with their voice as they lovingly recount stories or simply give you the comfort you need."

Yeah, I knew about those services popping up. Been for a while now. Pitched at first as more of a memorial to a passed love one.

"San Junipero" is next level to even Ai created voices or "Be Right Back" full body android included.
But with a twist.

It is my favorite of the episodes. Plug into their computer service and relive any time of your past.
Trying to be vague to those who haven't seen it and want to seek it out. It's basically VR taken to
the next level. The Matrix like rather.

Even if you want to assume this is a good thing - all new technologies comes with benefits. If they didn't, they would be dead on arrival. The question is whether the benefits are worth the costs. And that is the question that is too seldom asked.

You are correct. That's the fundamental question. As fundamental as asking who am I? Or what is this existence? It's "we can do it but should we?"

[chuft]

That's irrelevant to this discussion. In this case we know it's fake. We're making a continuation of LazyTown with AI that perfectly replicates all the actors from S1 to extrapolate new content for our entertainment. (I don't necessarily disagree with you, I am playing devil's advocate.)

Well, you might know it's fake. But a newcomer to LT might not. Over time, what is real and what is fake would likely be confused. A perfect AI could create a fake interview with Magnus and others saying "Here are 10 lost episodes we have recovered after getting the IP back! Enjoy!" Entire fake LazyTown archives would be easy to create with fake lists of episodes that make it look like these were always in the mix.

AI might not just create entire new episodes either. It could be used to make edits, additions or subtractions from the original episodes. You might think you are watching S1 Ep 17 but it might really have new scenes added and others removed, or subtle changes to lines of dialog or facial expressions. Unless you had the original DVDs to compare it to scene by scene, how would you know? Eventually there might be 200 different S1 Ep 17s circulating around the internet, each someone's idea of an AI enhanced "improvement". There might be some with swearing. Or some with porn. Or some with political messages, or product placement. Or some that seem just as likely to be valid as the originals and who knows which is which.

Flawless forgery is a dangerous path and threatens everything authentic.

In my imagination, AI is so good that it takes this into account. It doesn't just imitate the characters, it imitates the quirks of the actors. It would feel in every way as real and depthful as one of the original episodes.

Even if you want to assume this is a good thing - all new technologies comes with benefits. If they didn't, they would be dead on arrival. The question is whether the benefits are worth the costs. And that is the question that is too seldom asked.

Recently an initiative was announced whereby an AI would be able to analyze your DNA to come up with a custom cure for cancer via an mRNA vaccine. It sounds like an amazing benefit. But what if, say, somebody in China asked an AI to analyze a million DNA samples from all over the world and then create a deadly virus that would only infect those lacking genes typically found only in Chinese people. Playing with these technologies is very dangerous, however seductive their benefits might be. I think humanity is going in a very bad direction, starting with the Pandora's box of nuclear fission and proceeding into more and more technologies whose costs, IMO, outweigh their benefits more and more each passing year.

[MayhemTown]

In my imagination, AI is so good that it takes this into account. It doesn't just imitate the characters, it imitates the quirks of the actors. It would feel in every way as real and depthful as one of the original episodes.

If this were possible, I suppose the biggest issue to me would be that AI becomes the Mirror of Erised, as I alluded to in my earlier post. It would show each of us exactly what we want to see in such detail and intricacy that nothing else could compare. It would usher in a new era of hedonism which would be very difficult to escape. If our current media landscape is like alcohol, this AI powered future would be like heroin.

If AI ever gets to that point I feel like that'd be a pretty bleak future for entertainment and those who work in it. I suppose if AI could be used in a way that adds to something rather than replace it entirely and that could be done in an ethical and non-environmentally harmful way it could be used as a tool. It reminds me of how people used to think that mo-cap would replace animators, but instead is now used as a baseline for animators to work off of. The same could be done with AI, if we ever figure out how to.

[BRBFBI]

They're made by real people like artists animators and writers. All of which have been negatively affected by generative AI, especially illustration and writing. I would prefer a cartoon over AI remakes or continuations. LazyTown itself as a show is full of life, so even with just that i don't think using soulless AI for it is good. I doubt they would anyway. It's an idea sure, but it's not really a good one if you actually think about it.

True. To use the cartoon Buzz posted as an example, there are computer animation techniques in use there that replace human animators and make the animation "soulless" compared to hand-drawn animation. People like authenticity. Imperfections, rather than detracting, actually add to art.

In my imagination, AI is so good that it takes this into account. It doesn't just imitate the characters, it imitates the quirks of the actors. It would feel in every way as real and depthful as one of the original episodes.

If this were possible, I suppose the biggest issue to me would be that AI becomes the Mirror of Erised, as I alluded to in my earlier post. It would show each of us exactly what we want to see in such detail and intricacy that nothing else could compare. It would usher in a new era of hedonism which would be very difficult to escape. If our current media landscape is like alcohol, this AI powered future would be like heroin.

[BRBFBI]

This is a serious problem with AI. It is creating a post-truth society where there will be no way to know what is true, what is genuine. People laugh at it today because it makes mistakes. Once it stops making mistakes, it becomes incredibly scary.

I don't want every picture, every video, every piece of text leaving me with the question "Am I being lied to? Am I being fooled? Am I being manipulated?" It's bad enough today as it is.

And it's dangerous.

That's irrelevant to this discussion. In this case we know it's fake. We're making a continuation of LazyTown with AI that perfectly replicates all the actors from S1 to extrapolate new content for our entertainment. (I don't necessarily disagree with you, I am playing devil's advocate.)

[BRBFBI]

Have any of you watched the Black Mirror series?
There are two episodes that always stuck with me.

"Be Right Back" and "San Junipero[...]"

I watched Be Right Back on your recommendation. Disturbingly, the concept isn't nearly as far fetched as it was in 2013. I described the plot to my sister and she said "it doesn't sound weird enough to be a Black Mirror episode."

Since a couple years ago there are many services which will replicate a loved one's voice using AI.

From one such website: "We’d all do anything for one last conversation with a lost loved one. Now, with the innovation of generative AI for speech, nothing needs to be left unsaid. At Honoring Voices, we make it possible for your loved ones to leave behind the kind of message they’d want to be remembered for – powered by technology and compassion."

The pitch for their "most popular" package for $189 reads: "Sometimes, you just need to hear a little bit more to feel truly close to your departed loved one again. Using more advanced AI voice generation processing, you can spend even more time with their voice as they lovingly recount stories or simply give you the comfort you need."

This is literally the first half of that Black Mirror episode (up to the point where he gets a robot body)!

I would be furious if somebody used AI to replicate my character once I'm dead. But even if you had the persons consent before they died I'm not sure it would be healthy. Grieving is a natural part of the human experience, and hanging on in this way isn't that far off from those stories you hear about police finding a dead body in someone's house because they were too aggrieved to let it go.