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  • chuft
    Stepher
    SPECIAL MEMBER
    MODERATOR
    Level 31 - Number 9
    • Dec 2007
    • 3137

    Originally posted by BRBFBI
    Stuff like this really makes me want to study Epistemology.

    I don't know if you know who John Carpenter is, he made a lot of horror movies like The Thing. His first film was actually a comedy, called Dark Star, about a ship on a long term mission to go around blowing up unstable planets so their star systems can be colonized. It was his student project at UCLA Film School. It has a hilarious Phenomenology scene that you would definitely appreciate. The film was written by and stars Dan O'Bannon, who then went on to write the script for the 1979 Lovecraftian movie Alien. I highly recommend it (I own the DVD).


    Originally posted by BRBFBI
    If I hadn't already read Why We Sleep I wouldn't have had any suspicions about the contents of the video
    I think videos can be useful - like showing you how to change the battery in your car key fob - but when they are someone, especially someone without conventional credentials, just making statements (with or without fancy graphics) I don't tend to take them very seriously. The whole thing could just be made up, or contain misinterpreted summaries of other sources, or be accurate in some parts and wrong in others. No science publishing editor or peer review board or history department is reviewing these things for accuracy. Anybody can say anything and throw it out there for free on youtube. Books and academic journals are both more expensive and more reviewed by others prior to publication and much less likely to contain nonsense than some rando in a video.

    The only thing I would watch youtube for in terms of "data dumps" is very unimportant stuff like Warhammer 40K lore or the like, or videos from established institutions like the BBC or PBS.


    Originally posted by BRBFBI
    I'm also fascinated by the intersection of free speech and misinformation.

    This is a major problem due to the invention of the internet. Before that, "freedom of the press is for those who own one" as the saying goes. Individual speech might be heard in a bar or something but there was no practical way for an individual to spread (mis)information to a mass audience. Now it is possible, and even profitable, thanks to youtube, to make a presentation for no cost and distribute it to, potentially, the whole world, who can watch it at no cost. The same goes for Facebook and Twitter etc. This has created a new problem, as previously, it took resources (especially money) to even try to reach a mass audience, and that meant the people doing it had a vested interest in the accuracy of the content - if it was wrong it could damage the reputation of a publisher or newspaper, or could result in lawsuits.


    I have seen several attempts at "totally free speech" environments - ranging from gaming forums to things like 4Chan - and inevitably they are overrun with garbage, insults, racism, sexism, trolls, illegal content, hate speech etc. Reasonable people leave such environments once the downward spiral begins, leaving only those who actually like to wallow in the mud of such content. Free speech is a nice idea but it's kind of like saying anyone is allowed to come into your home. It won't be long before the theory proves more attractive than the reality. Historically in places like bars that are open to the public to hang out and talk, disruptive customers won't be tolerated and will be removed by force; also, false statements made will not be heard by anyone not physically in the room.


    The concept of free speech is very much pre-internet. We are in the midst of a giant social experiment to see if it really is a good idea with cheap mass communication. In my experience it is not, I do not stay on forums where "anything goes" and prefer some moderation, even if it is a little less "free." (Freedom from having to wade through garbage content to get to content you want is a new and important freedom in my opinion.)
    l i t t l e s t e p h e r s

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    • boredjedi
      Master
      SPECIAL MEMBER
      MODERATOR
      Level 35 - Rockin' Poster
      • Jun 2007
      • 7088

      Guzey vs Walker

      https://www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/w3csz3s6

      One example:
      “the shorter your sleep, the shorter your life span”
      Isaac Newton was reported to just sleep 4 hours a night and he lived to 84. Not too bad especially in those days.
      http://eighteenlightyearsago.ytmnd.com/

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      • chuft
        Stepher
        SPECIAL MEMBER
        MODERATOR
        Level 31 - Number 9
        • Dec 2007
        • 3137

        I was really behind in my sleep and was in bed 8.5 hours last night (according to my cpap) until my birds lost their patience and woke me up.


        Interesting BBC segment BJ. Good science often involves debate.

        A problem with sleep as a subject is that it is not possible to conduct ethical studies which involves excessive sleep deprivation in humans. If lack of sleep is damaging or fatal, there is no way to prove that with a double blind experiment. You can only go by observations of things that happen to occur, almost always outside of controlled laboratory conditions. Of course you will always get bizarre outliers when it comes to those, such as that guy who had a railroad spike go through his brain and survived, or some of these people who are missing virtually all of their brain on scans yet are walking and talking just fine like anybody else.

        Many things in science fall into this category. You can't do a controlled experiment to show that dinosaurs evolved and existed, or that black holes eat matter. You have to rely on observations of things you see in nature. Many things in human health would seem like they could be studied in a lab, but in reality, many conditions develop over years or decades and there is no way to study them under controlled conditions. Things like cancer and heart disease fall into this category. You can study short-term things in a lab, such as chemical changes that occur in a few weeks from doing various things, but really long term studies are always observational and not experimental and typically involve a ton of uncontrolled and/or unknown factors.
        l i t t l e s t e p h e r s

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        • boredjedi
          Master
          SPECIAL MEMBER
          MODERATOR
          Level 35 - Rockin' Poster
          • Jun 2007
          • 7088

          Originally posted by chuft
          Interesting BBC segment BJ. Good science often involves debate.
          That's why I'm not too particularly fond with the terms science by consensus or settled science.
          What I've seen is that it stifles debates. I prefer to say "as far as our current understanding now but that
          might change in the near future".

          I saw the reference to Mather Walker and his book Why We Sleep. Don't remember ever
          coming across that one. So I did my usual research. The rabbit hole of debates heh.
          I came across that bbc link from an opinion piece from a Columbia university blog section.
          It was in the comment section.

          https://statmodeling.stat.columbia.e...actual-errors/

          When I post videos, I don't worry too much about the creators. It's more about the subject matters and the
          debates that will ensue.

          This one is quiet interesting about an update in Photosynthesis he posted yesterday.


          http://eighteenlightyearsago.ytmnd.com/

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          • boredjedi
            Master
            SPECIAL MEMBER
            MODERATOR
            Level 35 - Rockin' Poster
            • Jun 2007
            • 7088

            I'm going to end up losing sleep over all this

            This one is good. Cites the scientific studies and has interviews with Guzey.
            Small channel too. Oh looks like he didn't post much after 4 years ago.
            1 video 3 years ago. 1 video 1 year ago. This one was 4 years ago when the topic was hot.

            http://eighteenlightyearsago.ytmnd.com/

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            • BRBFBI
              GETLAZY MEMBER
              Level 7 - Lazy Poster
              • Oct 2023
              • 40

              Originally posted by chuft
              Hmmm. That seems to contradict this study[...]
              Originally posted by boredjedi
              I'm going to end up losing sleep over all this

              This one is good. Cites the scientific studies and has interviews with Guzey[...]
              Wow, you guys are the best. I didn't expect to be challenged on this. Boredjedi, I've listened to both of the links you posted and I'm disappointed to find that Walker seems to be a bit more pop-scientist than I'd thought. I'm sorry to say I've fallen victim to the fearmongering criticized in the above video. I do shift work and regularly work all hours of the clock, and since reading Why We Sleep I've been a sleep hypochondriac. It makes me want to read it over again with a more discerning mind. I believe there is still good information in the book, and that more sleep and more regular sleep are healthier, but unfortunately it seems far from settled leaving me only with my opinion.


              Originally posted by boredjedi
              That's why I'm not too particularly fond with the terms science by consensus or settled science.
              What I've seen is that it stifles debates. I prefer to say "as far as our current understanding now but that
              might change in the near future".
              Originally posted by chuft
              Many things in human health would seem like they could be studied in a lab, but in reality, many conditions develop over years or decades and there is no way to study them under controlled conditions. Things like cancer and heart disease fall into this category. You can study short-term things in a lab, such as chemical changes that occur in a few weeks from doing various things, but really long term studies are always observational and not experimental and typically involve a ton of uncontrolled and/or unknown factors.
              Well said. I think there is a wisdom in understanding how much science does not yet know. I sometimes see people treat a study as gospel or, conversely, disregard an opinion if there isn't a scientific article to back it up. Science involving humans in particular has so many variables it's almost infinitely complex. You could eat a perfect diet according to nutrition labels, but those don't take into account antioxidants, many vitamins and minerals, amino acids, fatty acids, probiotics, etc... not to mention your specific body and environment and how they all interact. There is still a lot in the world that is left up to ones own common sense.

              Sorry to reply to both of you at once, but I thought you had overlapping (and excellent) points.

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              • boredjedi
                Master
                SPECIAL MEMBER
                MODERATOR
                Level 35 - Rockin' Poster
                • Jun 2007
                • 7088

                Originally posted by chuft
                I was checking to make sure I didn't post this next video below. And forgot about that captcha issue.
                It let me through this time believe it or not. That's why it's either metal or wooden kitchen utensils for me.
                Metal for iron pans and wooden for those Teflon non stick pans.


                Biology

                This one was from 3 months ago. I don't remember seeing it.
                Another video that was in the recommended list

                "DNA From Microbes That Survived Outer Space Protects Other Species Too"

                http://eighteenlightyearsago.ytmnd.com/

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                • chuft
                  chuft commented
                  Editing a comment
                  What captcha issue?
              • boredjedi
                Master
                SPECIAL MEMBER
                MODERATOR
                Level 35 - Rockin' Poster
                • Jun 2007
                • 7088

                When you had posted that link back in October, I kept trying to go there.
                But the captcha was doing its usual garbage. I get that a lot.


                This was the issue (scroll down a little)

                https://forums.lazytown.eu/forum/the...104#post201104

                The post you put the link I said I'd let you know when I got past the captcha

                https://forums.lazytown.eu/forum/the...100#post201100
                http://eighteenlightyearsago.ytmnd.com/

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                • boredjedi
                  Master
                  SPECIAL MEMBER
                  MODERATOR
                  Level 35 - Rockin' Poster
                  • Jun 2007
                  • 7088

                  Time (again)

                  http://eighteenlightyearsago.ytmnd.com/

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                  • boredjedi
                    Master
                    SPECIAL MEMBER
                    MODERATOR
                    Level 35 - Rockin' Poster
                    • Jun 2007
                    • 7088


                    http://eighteenlightyearsago.ytmnd.com/

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                    • chuft
                      Stepher
                      SPECIAL MEMBER
                      MODERATOR
                      Level 31 - Number 9
                      • Dec 2007
                      • 3137

                      Heavier elements are only produced in supernovas, so all the heavier elements in the Sun and on Earth and other planets are all from previous suns that exploded. Everything in our solar system is recycled from ancient stars that lived and died.
                      l i t t l e s t e p h e r s

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