โ˜ƒ๏ธ What show, movie or YouTube video are you into right now as of December 2024? ๐ŸŽ…

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  • chuft
    Stepher
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    Level 33 - New Superhero
    • Dec 2007
    • 4491

    #61
    Originally posted by BRBFBI
    First impression: I haven't seen such short skirts since, well. . . never mind

    That may seem like a funny thing to focus on, but it really was quite striking to me. I, perhaps naively, think of the mid 20th century as a time of Christian majority, when modesty reigned supreme. This not only contradicts that, but makes current day pop-culture feel puritanical by comparison. You wouldn't see this in, say, The Mandalorian.
    The 1960's were anything but puritanical. They broke the prudishness of the 1950's wide open and were the years of "sex, drugs and rock'n'roll". What people call "hookups" today was called "free love" in the 60's. People varied of course, but overall I think the young adults of the 1960's, the Boomers, had more sex than any previous generation and more than the Millennials and Gen Z as well. They certainly did more drugs.

    The Enterprise is in Star Fleet, which is essentially the Navy of the United Federation of Planets. While it is on a deep space exploration mission, it is a warship - a heavy cruiser of the Constellation class, one of about a dozen in the fleet, and heavily armed. Starships like the Enterprise represented the might of the Federation in addition to its scientific expertise. With only 12 for the whole galaxy, each one was incredibly valuable and the crew of the highest caliber. Naturally the crew has a military demeanor. But the 60s culture shows through with the racially integrated crew, women serving alongside the men, and those wonderful Steph-length outfits.

    There is an episode, The Way to Eden, where the crew comes into contact with a civilian hippie group, with interesting results.

    It occurs to me that I have no reason to think you are a science fiction fan. I am so used to almost everyone I know being one, from friends to coworkers to people on forums, that it's hard to imagine. But if you aren't - there is a big difference between a spaceship and a starship. The space shuttle was a spaceship, it could travel in local space, at normal speeds. The Enterprise is a starship, capable of interstellar travel, at speeds vastly faster than light. Such vessels are rare indeed throughout the galaxy. You may hear them say "Warp Factor" or "Time Warp Factor" for speed. The warp factor is the exponent, cubed, of c. So a ship going Warp 2 is going 8 times the speed of light, Warp 3 is 27 times the speed of light, etc. The usual travel speed between stars is Warp 6, 216 times the speed of light. A system 10 light years away would take 17 days to reach.


    Originally posted by BRBFBI
    Having been briefed, I noticed that the alien of this episode was truly alien: an inoganic life form made of silicon. However, Spock is able to communicate with it and, a highly intelligent creature, it has human-like motivations and even emotions. Perhaps not so alien after all.
    Well I would not call wanting to protect and raise your young to be "human-like". I think it would have to be universal in anything higher up the scale than a fish or reptile - and even then alligators fiercely protect their young. You will see what I mean about human-like aliens if you watch the Next Generation or later shows, where they are haggling, making puns and double entendres, having gambling or other vice-related problems, and generally acting exactly like humans but with rubber bumps on their heads. The Horta is....pretty alien.


    Originally posted by BRBFBI
    The theme of nature fighting back against exploiting humans has been done extensively since TOS
    The key word is "since". Star Trek was responsible for a lot of firsts. For example, at the time that show aired, whaling was still legal in the United States. The concept that an alien monster might actually be an intelligent, sensitive being deserving of fair treatment was also unknown in TV and film media, I believe. The 1950's were dominated by creature-features and flying saucers, Martians and blobs. When you watch Star Trek you are, in a very real sense, watching history. Its influence is hard to overstate. You would really have to have some familiarity with what came before as well as after to really appreciate that.

    I like old sci fi movies like Forbidden Planet, This Island Earth, Fiend Without A Face, War of the Worlds, The Time Machine, 20,000 Leagues Under the Sea, First Men in the Moon etc and have seen quite a few of them. Star Trek was really groundbreaking and I think it remains very entertaining now, but obviously I have a long sentimental attachment to it.



    Originally posted by BRBFBI
    The Menagerie Parts I and II: These episodes were much more interesting with the intrigue of Spock's mutiny. At over 90 minutes the two episodes together are basically a movie. I enjoyed Spock's utter manipulation of Kirk, the Admiral, and the crew of The Enterprise in service of his goals. Getting court martialed and sentenced to death was all part of his plan.
    Ok, a little background: the original pilot for the show, which is available now as The Cage on video but was never aired, is the footage you are seeing in the flashbacks there. They didn't want to waste all that expensive footage so they made it the basis of a real episode, as flashbacks. What you are seeing there in those flashbacks is Spock 1.0 (what I like to call The Shouting Spock), Number One (the first officer, who is played by the same woman who plays Nurse Chapel - Majel Barrett - in the actual show, who married Gene Roddenberry, the show's creator) and the original Captain, Christopher Pike, who of course is replaced with James T. Kirk in the actual show with a different actor.


    Originally posted by BRBFBI
    Their power of illusion allowed for some pretty fun drama and bluffing, with Kirk speculating that his laser actually had fired and the appearance that it was malfunctioning was merely an illusion.
    That isn't Kirk, it's Pike.


    Originally posted by BRBFBI
    I didn't think it had very much to say about "the seductive dangers of virtual reality." It is simply posited as bad, and Kirk, the hero, resists its temptations.
    Pike....

    I was referring to the Talosians.

    PIKE: Did they ever live on the surface of this planet? Why did they go underground?

    VINA: War, thousands of centuries ago.

    PIKE: That's why it's so barren up there?

    VINA: The planet's only now beginning to support life again. So the Talosians who came underground found life limited here and concentrated on developing their mental power. But they found it's a trap...like a narcotic, because when dreams become more important than reality, you give up travel, building, creating. You even forget how to repair the machines left behind by your ancestors. You just sit, living and reliving other lives left behind in the thought record.

    ....

    TALOSIAN: Your unsuitability has condemned the Talosian race to eventual death. Is this not sufficient? No other specimen has shown your adaptability. You were our last hope.

    PIKE: But wouldn't some form of trade...mutual cooperation...

    TALOSIAN: Your race would learn our power of illusion and destroy itself, too.โ€‹


    Originally posted by BRBFBI
    Interestingly, Spock's motivation and the resolution to the episode is the return of Captain Pike, the invalid Starfleet Captain trapped in his mind, to Talos-4 so he can live out the rest of his days in the fantasy world; so there's some nuance there.


    Pretty enjoyable. I think I'll keep watching for now.

    Well I'm glad you enjoyed it, I do wonder what you'd think if you watched it again, this time knowing the captain in the flashbacks is Pike, not Kirk. Kirk knew nothing about Talos IV until he is shown during the trial. And Spock was not just rescuing some random guy, Pike was his old captain before Kirk, as shown in the ep.
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    • BRBFBI
      The Long Arm of the Law
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      • Oct 2023
      • 301

      #62
      Originally posted by chuft
      The key word is "since". Star Trek was responsible for a lot of firsts.
      I am aware. That doesn't change the fact that for me, a viewer in 2025 who has been exposed to more complex, derivative ideas, watching the original simply isn't stimulating.
      Originally posted by chuft
      You would really have to have some familiarity with what came before as well as after to really appreciate that.
      I'm sure you're right. I know some hobbyist "media anthropologists" who derive a lot of satisfaction from going back in history and consuming influential pieces of media which were turning points in their particular genres and tracing the progression of certain themes over time. I don't watch a lot of shows to begin with, and watching something which doesn't push me to think about something in a new way isn't very entertaining personally.

      That's a great example of whaling as a demonstration of cultural ideas at the time. I wonder if you've see James Cameron's Avatar. In the sequel there's a race of super-intelligent, emotionally complex alien whales being hunted for their oil - wrapping all the way back around to this idea almost sixty years later.


      Originally posted by BRBFBI
      I didn't think it had very much to say about "the seductive dangers of virtual reality." It is simply posited as bad, and Kirk [sic], the hero, resists its temptations.
      Originally posted by chuft
      I was referring to the Talosians.
      First off, how did you do all those quotes? Did you google the script? Put in the DVD and seek to the appropriate scene?

      You're right. The show makes explicit that "the seductive dangers of virtual reality" are directly responsible for the decline of the Talosian race. The episode is presented like a cautionary tale about succumbing to the temptation of virtual reality, and I'm curious where that trope comes from. It seems so relevant today, but what were cautionary tales like this warning about in the pre-internet era?


      That is an interesting background on the pilot footage. What a creative way to reuse it.
      Originally posted by chuft
      I do wonder what you'd think if you watched it again, this time knowing the captain in the flashbacks is Pike, not Kirk.
      They're the same character - the square jawed, heroic captain of the Enterprise - just with a different name and played by different actors. Obviously the distinction between them is important in this episode, and I knew who was who, I just messed up the names in my post. My media literacy isn't that low, I swear!

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      • chuft
        Stepher
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        • Dec 2007
        • 4491

        #63
        Originally posted by BRBFBI
        That's a great example of whaling as a demonstration of cultural ideas at the time. I wonder if you've see James Cameron's Avatar. In the sequel there's a race of super-intelligent, emotionally complex alien whales - wrapping all the way back around to this idea almost sixty years later.
        Wait until you see Star Trek IV. Don't want to spoil anything.

        I have seen both Avatar movies. The graphical look for the ecosystem of Pandora is heavily based on coral reefs. Watching it was very much like looking at my old coral reef tanks under actinic light, with glowing polyps and waving tentacles everywhere.




        Originally posted by BRBFBI
        First off, how did you do all those quotes? Did you google the script?
        Yes naturally I googled the script. Was harder to find than it should have been due to Google getting crappy and the site for the script for The Cage it tried to send me to, one of my antiviruses warned me against. I was able to find The Menagerie Part I and from that site, found Part II.

        No comment on Vina? Matters of taste I suppose. I consider Susan Oliver to be the most alluring woman ever to appear in a science fiction show or movie.

        I always remember seeing this as one of the end-of-show slides and wondering what episode it was from. Finally saw The Menagerie and found out.



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        I always laugh when I see the weird little thing she does at 0:53. This is a high frame rate version, looks weirdly crisp to me.








        Originally posted by BRBFBI
        You're right. The show makes explicit that "the seductive dangers of virtual reality" are directly responsible for the decline of the Talosian race. The episode is presented like a cautionary tale about succumbing to the temptation of virtual reality, and I'm curious where that trope comes from. It seems so relevant today, but what were cautionary tales like this warning about in the pre-internet era?
        Science fiction today tends to be of the action explosion movie or TV variety. But Star Trek was more emblematic of written science fiction, the primary form in which it has traditionally been consumed, which was far more cerebral. Good science fiction revolves around thinking through the implications of ideas. H.G. Wells' The Invisible Man for instance is a realistic look at what would happen if the traditional "I wish I could turn invisible" fantasy came true (through science). His "First Men In The Moon" examines a potential consequence of men journeying to the Moon.

        In this case, the episode writer is imagining the power to create a waking dream and exist in it. Some people are really into dreaming and prefer it to their dull waking life. I had a roommate once who really got into lucid dreaming. He would write down his dreams every morning in his journal so he could better remember them. He practiced the discipline of frequently asking himself "Am I awake?" which, eventually, will start to occur while you are dreaming. Once you realize you are in a dream, it is possible to take control of it to some extent and guide it to a subject you want. His dreams were always the most fantastic adventures, similar to our Dungeons and Dragons sessions, except he was living them.

        I think as usual this kind of thing is less interesting in an era where there is so much entertainment on demand all the time. People are never bored enough to really daydream much, never mind speculate about how cool it would be to step into your daydream and stay there, or work on lucid dreaming so you had an alternate life you could live in your sleep.

        Star Trek: The Next Generation (1987) featured, right on board the ship, a "holodeck" that was virtual reality but with a physical aspect as well so you could create and interact with anything you wanted, typically for recreation. Virtual reality as a concept goes pretty far back.

        Speaking of lucid dreaming, did you ever seen this classic sci fi movie about being able to enter other people's dreams?







        Originally posted by BRBFBI
        Obviously the distinction between them is important in this episode, I just messed up the names in my post. My media literacy isn't that low, I swear!
        OK just making sure. The story makes a lot less sense if you think Kirk was on Talos IV.

        Pike is the only human other than Vina who has experienced Talos IV. The risk of civilizational self-destruction from someone learning the power of illusion is considered so dangerous that the entire system is quarantined on penalty of death and the reason is top secret. Some ideas are too dangerous to know. It's not unusual in Star Trek to come across vanished or collapsed civilizations, the cause of their decline is always of interest, just like the fall of the Roman Empire has been an obsession of historians for centuries.

        By the way the first episode they made for the real show was Where No Man Has Gone Before, even though it didn't air first. It is kind of halfway between The Cage and the rest of the episodes in terms of the set and the cast, which had not finalized yet, and it has The Shouting Spock. Since you have watched The Menagerie you might want to watch Where No Man Has Gone Before while the old sets are fresh in your mind. It concerns the nature of power. It features a very cool piece of equipment, a phaser rifle, I don't think was ever shown since. It also has, like some scenes in The Menagerie/The Cage, a cool background painting, something they moved away from in future episodes, to save money no doubt.


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        Planet Delta Vega. Note the interesting (if you have seen Forbidden Planet) Krell-shaped entrance to the building. No doubt a reference to that classic film.
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        • chuft
          Stepher
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          • Dec 2007
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          #64
          I'll just put this here for future reference, just found it and it's very cool.


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          • chuft
            chuft commented
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            I can't say what it is without spoilers for a famous excellent sci-fi movie
        • BRBFBI
          The Long Arm of the Law
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          • Oct 2023
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          #65
          Originally posted by chuft
          No comment on Vina? Matters of taste I suppose. I consider Susan Oliver to be the most alluring woman ever to appear in a science fiction show or movie.
          Haha, was I supposed to gush over her? She's cute, but not startlingly so to me. Matters of taste indeed. Nothing wrong with that.

          Originally posted by chuft
          I always laugh when I see the weird little thing she does at 0:53. This is a high frame rate version, looks weirdly crisp to me.
          LOL. I noticed that but didn't dwell on it - there's a lot to take in the first viewing. It feels like there was supposed to be a shriek there. Perhaps the audio was damaged and they had to dump it and never ADR'd something back in. And yeah, I don't like how smooth and crisp that looks.

          Originally posted by chuft
          It also has, like some scenes in The Menagerie/The Cage, a cool background painting, something they moved away from in future episodes, to save money no doubt.
          Funny. Both The Devil in the Dark and The Menagerie had intricate painted backgrounds. I assumed that was a staple of the show.



          I'm not satisfied with the answer that the closest real-life correlation to the theme of the episode is lucid dreaming. I'm remembering now that Harry Potter has a similar theme at one point with the Mirror of Erised:
          ...this mirror will give us neither knowledge or truth. Men have wasted away before it, entranced by what they have seen, or been driven mad, not knowing if what it shows is real or even possible. [...] It does not do to dwell on dreams and forget to live.
          In the case of the Talosians an entire race has wasted away, but the message is the same. It is too common a theme and presented with too strong a moral to be a pure example of a sci-fi script thinking through the implications of an idea. Whether dressed up as sci-fi or fantasy, tales in this genre are emblematic of a real choice that humanity must face. The allegory of the Mirror of Erised or the Thalosians can easily be transposed on the modern day internet, but these literary themes echo back long before its existence. So what are they really warning about?


          Obligatory:
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          • chuft
            Stepher
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            • Dec 2007
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            #66
            A funny little shoop for those who have seen both Dark Star and Prometheus



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            • chuft
              Stepher
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              #67

              Star Trek plans packed lineup for the franchiseโ€™s 60th anniversary, with Lego sets and YouTube show


              Lego sets what a surprise.



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              • chuft
                Stepher
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                • Dec 2007
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                #68
                Weird. I was writing this post and some keys on my keyboard stopped working. But only in here. I copied and saved the post and closed the tab and opened it back up and now the keys work again.



                Originally posted by BRBFBI
                Haha, was I supposed to gush over her? She's cute, but not startlingly so to me. Matters of taste indeed. Nothing wrong with that.

                No I don't expect anyone to gush over women I like. And I don't think she's startling the way Michelle Pfeiffer is in say Ladyhawke (and yes that's Rutger Hauer i.e. Roy Batty). I would have liked to see Michelle Pfeiffer as Galadriel in LotR. But if you rewatch her scenes a few times, especially when she has her natural hair and not one of the "outfits," she may grow on you. She has a softness about her that is very appealing, and virtually absent from modern acting.


                Originally posted by BRBFBI
                LOL. I noticed that but didn't dwell on it - there's a lot to take in the first viewing. It feels like there was supposed to be a shriek there. Perhaps the audio was damaged and they had to dump it and never ADR'd something back in. And yeah, I don't like how smooth and crisp that looks.
                If you pay close attention as she runs up and to their body language in the closeups, he is holding her left hand. I think that little thing she does is when she is wriggling out of his grasp, but you can't see her arm in the shot. But since you can't see what she's doing, it looks pretty funny.



                Originally posted by BRBFBI
                Funny. Both The Devil in the Dark and The Menagerie had intricate painted backgrounds. I assumed that was a staple of the show.

                I don't recall Devil in the Dark having one and indeed it seems it was added as part of the digital remaster by artist Max Gabl. Maybe the remasters added other ones, I don't recall, sounds like it from his bio there.


                Originally posted by BRBFBI
                I'm not satisfied with the answer that the closest real-life correlation to the theme of the episode is lucid dreaming.
                My primary point was that science fiction is about exploring the implications of new ideas. Lucid dreaming was an aside about a current day equivalent with turning away from everyday life.


                Originally posted by BRBFBI
                I'm remembering now that Harry Potter has a similar theme at one point with the Mirror of Erised:

                In the case of the Talosians an entire race has wasted away, but the message is the same. It is too common a theme and presented with too strong a moral to be a pure example of a sci-fi script thinking through the implications of an idea. Whether dressed up as sci-fi or fantasy, tales in this genre are emblematic of a real choice that humanity must face. The allegory of the Mirror of Erised or the Thalosians can easily be transposed on the modern day internet, but these literary themes echo back long before its existence. So what are they really warning about? [Click and drag to move]
                Well I disagree with you. Most of human existence on this planet has been a struggle to survive day to day and find enough food. The idea of leisure is relatively new. Leisure for the masses, even newer. A utopian future where no one has to work and can devote themselves to living in fantasies, is pure speculation.

                I think this episode explored that idea. I don't think it's a current threat, it's a potential threat from possible technologies of the future, although if Mark Zuckerberg has his way, a virtual world may arrive sooner than we think.

                I don't think Star Trek was trying to warn the audience of a current, present danger from living in dreams and fantasies. Most people have nothing even approaching that option. Closest thing I know is people who spend all their time on the internet writing posts about Star Trek...er playing MMO's like World of Warcraft where their characters have trades, friends, activity groups....I know people who would just come home from work and jump into WoW until they went to bed, every night. They had traded the real world for a virtual one, where they spent years of their life doing what sounded to me like very repetitive activities, which they did because of the social aspect. But this sort of thing was not around in 1968 and clearly was not what anybody had in mind with The Cage/The Menagerie.

                The Harry Potter thing to me felt more like the danger of obsessing over things lost - lost parents, lost loves or loves that might have been but weren't, lost opportunities for success or glory....there are people really like this, parents who keep a dead child's bedroom just as it was for decades, or a widow or widower who won't move on and keeps pictures of their dead spouse around, always talking to them, talking to their grave etc. It is important to remember the past but it cannot be allowed to steal the present, never mind the future. Everybody, except maybe for a lucky few who have led a charmed and privileged life, has lost something, has things they regret or things they feel they missed out on, things they wish they could go back and do over differently. The mirror offers you the chance to wallow in your regrets and dreams of things that might have been. It is not healthy but I think it's a different situation than the Talosians.




                Originally posted by BRBFBI
                Obligatory:
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                LOL nice


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                • BRBFBI
                  The Long Arm of the Law
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                  #69
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                  This is just softcore porn now. That black censor bar is not a joke - I don't want Pooky to ban me.

                  She (Sherry Jackson) is cuter than Susan Oliver.

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                  • chuft
                    Stepher
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                    • Dec 2007
                    • 4491

                    #70
                    Bit of a prude aren't you. Europeans are not freaked out by the human breast. That one is even covered. This show aired on mainstream public airwaves TV during a time when people were not even allowed to swear.

                    LOL Star Trek is porn. Come on.
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                    • BRBFBI
                      BRBFBI commented
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                      I've been conditioned.
                  • chuft
                    Stepher
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                    • Dec 2007
                    • 4491

                    #71
                    I think I'll watch that Battlestar video of the Battle of Ragnar Anchorage that I posted again. I must have seen that battle 50 times over the years. Never gets old on fullscreen HD.
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                    • chuft
                      Stepher
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                      • Dec 2007
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                      #72
                      I only have one thing to say


                      https://stephers.lazytown.eu/ch/anim/enterprise.htm

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                      • chuft
                        chuft commented
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                        Did you notice the Antares had the Sportacus 10 on the side

                      • BRBFBI
                        BRBFBI commented
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                        Yes, along with the impossible to miss Tusk or whichever bird that is.

                      • boredjedi
                        boredjedi commented
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                        A classic site
                    • chuft
                      Stepher
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                      • Dec 2007
                      • 4491

                      #73
                      If you watch Battlestar you may appreciate this one someday


                      https://stephers.lazytown.eu/ch/anim/galactica.htm

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                      • BRBFBI
                        BRBFBI commented
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                        I always liked that one even without a knowledge of Battlestar. โ€œYouโ€™re not going to believe what Iโ€™m looking at out here - itโ€™s like a dreamโ€ ๐Ÿ˜‚
                    • BRBFBI
                      The Long Arm of the Law
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                      • Oct 2023
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                      #74
                      Originally posted by chuft
                      The Harry Potter thing to me felt more like the danger of obsessing over things lost [...] It is not healthy but I think it's a different situation than the Talosians
                      You're looking at too granular a level. I'm looking for similarities, not differences. Both stories feature a device which presents a more attractive but false version of reality, and a hero who resists its temptations. And I am not the only one to see this overlap; the community wiki TVTropes lists both the Mirror of Erised and the plot of The Cage as examples of a trope they call a "Lotus-Eater Machine." Other examples of the Lotus-Eater Machine trope include the Matrix of The Matrix and, according to TVTropes, Slaanesh's Six Circles of Seduction. I will circle back to this.

                      Originally posted by BRBFBI
                      The allegory of the Mirror of Erised or the Thalosians can easily be transposed on the modern day internet, but these literary themes echo back long before its existence. So what are they really warning about?
                      Originally posted by chuft
                      Well I disagree with you. Most of human existence on this planet has been a struggle to survive day to day and find enough food. The idea of leisure is relatively new. Leisure for the masses, even newer.
                      And I must disagree with you that leisure is a new concept; it is as old as civilization. The ancient Greeks practiced many forms of leisure: theater, festivals, dancing, reading and writing of poetry, music, even board games to name a few. Go boards have been discovered in ancient Chinese watchtowers in archaeological digs, proving that indulging in a game of go was not the exclusive domain of the elites. Even a lonesome frontiersman who carves a squirrel out of wood after a long day of working the land is participating in leisure.

                      However, not all leisure activities are held to be equal. Leisure activities such as participation in a sport - which hones ones physical prowess and intellect and increases ties to ones community - are held in higher regard than, say, drinking alone in front of the TV. Why is this so? From a purely hedonistic perspective that which causes the most pleasure should be held in highest regard. The answer goes far beyond the depth of my limited understanding of philosophy, but it asks some very deep and fundamental questions: What is happiness? Is pleasure alone sufficient? Does true happiness perhaps require community? Fulfillment? Accomplishment?

                      Fortunately people far smarter than myself (or most of the general populace) have contemplated these questions since millennia ago and have passed their knowledge down in the form of stories. The namesake of the Lotus-Eater Machine trope above comes from the Lotus-eaters of Homer's Odyssey: a race of people living on a utopian island who subsist off a narcotic lotus plant which causes them to live in blissful apathy:
                      They (members of Odysseus' crew) started at once, and went about among the Lotus-eaters, who did them no hurt, but gave them to eat of the lotus, which was so delicious that those who ate of it left off caring about home, and did not even want to go back and say what had happened to them, but were for staying and munching lotus with the Lotus-eaters without thinking further of their return
                      Despite the attractive, utopian nature of this existence, through the actions of the protagonist we are taught that such temptations must be resisted:
                      nevertheless, though they wept bitterly I forced them back to the ships and made them fast under the benches. Then I told the rest to go on board at once, lest any of them should taste of the lotus and leave off wanting to get home, so they took their places and smote the grey sea with their oars.
                      Odysseus tearing his crew away from the lotuses is analogous to The Federation banning contact with Talos IV or Albus Dumbledore disposing of the Mirror. As a trope it goes back at least 2,500 years, and it teaches us that no matter how complex, ugly and at times unpleasant reality can be, pursuit of pleasure alone is no replacement.

                      Originally posted by chuft
                      A utopian future where no one has to work and can devote themselves to living in fantasies, is pure speculation [...] I don't think Star Trek was trying to warn the audience of a current, present danger from living in dreams and fantasies. Most people have nothing even approaching that option.
                      Like the pigs in George Orwell's Animal Farm or the shadows in Plato's cave, the utopia offered by the mind-power of the Talos is an allegory and not meant to be taken literally. It is a lens through which to communicate and contemplate complex moral ideas.

                      Note

                      • BRBFBI
                        The Long Arm of the Law
                        SPECIAL MEMBER
                        Level 14 - Sportscandy
                        • Oct 2023
                        • 301

                        #75
                        Originally posted by chuft
                        I don't recall Devil in theDark having one and indeed it seems it was added as part of the digital remaster by artist Max Gabl. Maybe the remasters added other ones, I don't recall, sounds like it from his bio there.
                        The original version of Devil in the Dark which I watched looked like this. It was indeed updated to the digital one you linked in the remaster.

                        Note


                        • chuft
                          chuft commented
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                          You didn't watch the remaster?

                        • BRBFBI
                          BRBFBI commented
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                          No. Watching the original on archive.org or whatever

                        • chuft
                          chuft commented
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                          Oh I assumed you torrented it. Cool. I don't remember a lot of paintings in the show.
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